Apr 18, 2023·edited Apr 18, 2023Liked by Grundvilk
Hi Larry, this is a well researched and well written post, thank you for sharing it. A couple of thoughts that stood out to me as I read it..
- "Any problems and benefits created by variations in individual susceptibility to individual or group hypnosis are, to the contrary, part and parcel of the perennial human state of being." Yes, I very much agree with this. The issue with "mass formation hypothesis" is that it assumes most people are normally rational and that only in an extreme event can they be driven to "mass formation", but if only that was the case! It seems instead that our elites have mastered the art of propaganda and use it to keep most of the population in a kind of low-grade formation that only turns acute under certain circumstances. This is worse, though, because it means it's simply human nature and elites can basically command people to do whatever they want having cracked the way most people think.
- "As noted earlier, Morgan and Hilgard (1973) reported that women between the ages of 21 and 32 years scored significantly higher on the SHSS:A relative to similarly aged men." Yes, Orwell commented on this phenomenon succinctly: "It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers-out of unorthodoxy.” Or from here: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3675477-young-women-are-trending-liberal-young-men-are-not/
- "Finally, Benham, Smith, and Nash (2002) showed that since the beginning of standardized hypnotic susceptibility testing in the 1950s, there has been a smooth gradual increase in the average level of human hypnotic susceptibility and suggestibility." This is likely related to the homogenization of inner life in the era of mass media, which is elaborated on here: https://twitter.com/0x49fa98/status/1051974092176293893
- "What makes people immune? I think to answer this question we need to go really deeply into individual psychology and to ask ourselves in what way do people try to establish psychological stability." Using the big 5 personality test (which is a great test and way better than Myers Briggs), I think those who score high on neuroticism plus disagreeability is a good place to start (although the evidence you provided points to the importance of high conscientiousness).
- "So, usually about 70% who shut up – 30% because they are convinced by the mainstream narrative and 40% because they don’t dare to speak out." Yes, this is interesting in light of the 2007 University of Nevada Department of Psychology study on college students which showed that only 22-34% of the students studied had frequent internal dialogues...
Very interesting cross-references. Thanks for providing them. I do think, however, most people are capable of rationality -- it's just that in many cases that rationality is relatively easily disturbed. I am definitely of the view that trying to talk people back into rationality is usually useless, however. This is why I spend time trying to figure out possible internal and external (non-talking) factors that could be responsible for tipping people in and out of rationality. Exercise helps, diet can hurt or help, smoking may help some, keeping away from irrational people certainly helps. I can't recall if I remarked this to you or not, but my basic model of irrational people is the two year-old kid. Talking to them when they've slipped into irrationality does no good to them (or their parents) at all. Keeping them away from sugar, making sure they get exercise and sleep -- those non-talking maneuvers do help, however.
No one is really at the top of the hierarchy, given the wide effects of those disturbing influences. Recall the ongoing idiocies of COVID19 policies and climate change confusion -- events under which showed empty suits at "the top of the hierarchy" are still just empty suits and possess no real authority (or power over the long run).
Hi Larry, this is a well researched and well written post, thank you for sharing it. A couple of thoughts that stood out to me as I read it..
- "Any problems and benefits created by variations in individual susceptibility to individual or group hypnosis are, to the contrary, part and parcel of the perennial human state of being." Yes, I very much agree with this. The issue with "mass formation hypothesis" is that it assumes most people are normally rational and that only in an extreme event can they be driven to "mass formation", but if only that was the case! It seems instead that our elites have mastered the art of propaganda and use it to keep most of the population in a kind of low-grade formation that only turns acute under certain circumstances. This is worse, though, because it means it's simply human nature and elites can basically command people to do whatever they want having cracked the way most people think.
- "As noted earlier, Morgan and Hilgard (1973) reported that women between the ages of 21 and 32 years scored significantly higher on the SHSS:A relative to similarly aged men." Yes, Orwell commented on this phenomenon succinctly: "It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers-out of unorthodoxy.” Or from here: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3675477-young-women-are-trending-liberal-young-men-are-not/
- "Finally, Benham, Smith, and Nash (2002) showed that since the beginning of standardized hypnotic susceptibility testing in the 1950s, there has been a smooth gradual increase in the average level of human hypnotic susceptibility and suggestibility." This is likely related to the homogenization of inner life in the era of mass media, which is elaborated on here: https://twitter.com/0x49fa98/status/1051974092176293893
- "What makes people immune? I think to answer this question we need to go really deeply into individual psychology and to ask ourselves in what way do people try to establish psychological stability." Using the big 5 personality test (which is a great test and way better than Myers Briggs), I think those who score high on neuroticism plus disagreeability is a good place to start (although the evidence you provided points to the importance of high conscientiousness).
- "So, usually about 70% who shut up – 30% because they are convinced by the mainstream narrative and 40% because they don’t dare to speak out." Yes, this is interesting in light of the 2007 University of Nevada Department of Psychology study on college students which showed that only 22-34% of the students studied had frequent internal dialogues...
Very interesting cross-references. Thanks for providing them. I do think, however, most people are capable of rationality -- it's just that in many cases that rationality is relatively easily disturbed. I am definitely of the view that trying to talk people back into rationality is usually useless, however. This is why I spend time trying to figure out possible internal and external (non-talking) factors that could be responsible for tipping people in and out of rationality. Exercise helps, diet can hurt or help, smoking may help some, keeping away from irrational people certainly helps. I can't recall if I remarked this to you or not, but my basic model of irrational people is the two year-old kid. Talking to them when they've slipped into irrationality does no good to them (or their parents) at all. Keeping them away from sugar, making sure they get exercise and sleep -- those non-talking maneuvers do help, however.
piped pipers in control
Or under the same disturbing influences as are most of the rest of us.
yes where is the top of the hierarchy, who is at the top?
No one is really at the top of the hierarchy, given the wide effects of those disturbing influences. Recall the ongoing idiocies of COVID19 policies and climate change confusion -- events under which showed empty suits at "the top of the hierarchy" are still just empty suits and possess no real authority (or power over the long run).